Laptop DJing!

[garnster]

Howdey,

I'm considering buying an all-dancing duel soundcard for my laptop that'll make it a DJing tool. Apart from not having to carry any records/CDs, can anyone suggest any practical advantages of DJing with a laptop?

Example: Would it open up the door to other effects/methods of mixing/tricks or any other possabilities?

I may be talking bollox but I'm curious as to what practical advantages it may have.

Answers on a postcard.... :?:

[the quoon]

i always sit on someone's lap when dj-ing

[johnny.boy(2)]

Check out ableton live and draw your own conclusions:

http://www.ableton.com/

[the quoon]

got ableton live, its a lot of good fun.

could do with a laptop really :roll:

[Kubik]

A couple of years ago there was the big debate over whether or not CDs should take over vinyls as the main DJ tool. Lots of people were saying yes they should cos it was the future and the way forward, wheras lots of people including myself were like no frickin way, Djing is all about a performance and pressing a few buttons on a cd player doesn;t have the same performance fator as using vinyls, Plus personally i don't think it feels right.

Anyways with the intriduction of the pioneer CDJ 1000 etc range with the cd deck that basically is a vinyl deck, yes I agree that cd's and digital technology will become more apparant in the music industry. Also the CDJ range has all the real time effects on it, that allow you to totally mess around with tunes to your heart content. Just like Eddie Halliwell does with Adagio for strings, everytime he plays it! (you know where he drags and drags and drags the breakdown out for ages before bringing it back in) If any people saw him at Goodgreefs 4th @ Nation you'll know what i'm talking about.

As for Laptops I think that technology is starting to go that little bit too far. With a laptop you basicall don't have to do anything except click the mouse button a few times. What skill and more importantly what fun is that. Alright a laptop should be used i think with todays technology to improve dj sets and make sets more personalised to a DJ however they should be used as a special weapon not a companion where everything is done with the click of a mouse. DJing should be kept to the basic vinyls! thats where the skill, fun and performance factors are!!

If you are looking for a DJ frindly packages tho check out Vinyl or is it Final scratch. That allows you to have all your records on MP3 on you laptop and then play them through a blank 12" vinyl. That way you get the fun of clicking the mouse button looking cool and looking upto date with technology using your laptop but also showng people that you can actually dj properly using vinyls.

Just imagine what it will be like in 100 yrs, people might be like "what you actually had a human being playing the music NO WAY!!!!!"

Laters, all the best with you laptop, appologies for waffling on like that :D

[Pete1]

To all DJs, the more new gadjets and gizmos and effects units etc that become available make it easier for everyone. Do you not realise you are doing yourselves out of a job? Slowly but surely even an incompetent fool like me will be able to play a storming set by pushing a few buttons. Just a thought....

[SteMc]

You could literally mix p!ss and gravy with Ableton live :shock: Its ridiculously easy to use, as long as you set the loops right theres not much that can go wrong.

Alright as a DJ tool to work alongside decks, but i would feel a bit cheated if i saw a whole set of someone sitting next to a laptop dragging loops together.

[Pete1]

The only DJ who i can think of that uses a laptop as the staple tool in his sets is the local jock Fat Willy who plays down my local boozer on a friday and saturday night. It's not cool........ it's soooooo not cool. Don't go down that road....

[johnny.boy(2)]

If Fat WIlly's track selection is excellent, than he's a better DJ than you'll ever be.

[Pete1]

Oh don't get me wrong his tuneage is ace! S Club 7, Darude, Britney Spears, Eric Pridz... he's got 'em all.

[Pete1]

Shabba!

[housegrooves]

The only DJ who i can think of that uses a laptop as the staple tool in his sets is the local jock Fat Willy who plays down my local boozer on a friday and saturday night. It's not cool........ it's soooooo not cool. Don't go down that road....

Francois K also uses a lap top, sometimes.

[Dom Chung]

i was just about to say that polly!

he does indeed and when i saw him last it was the best set i havwe seen all year...think he uses Tractor. (or something like that).

[jules]

loads of people do

[Pete1]

Dunno, never seen him.

Decks and a mixer......... it looks better!

[johnny.boy(2)]

Richie Hawtin uses Ableton after being the Final Scatch pioneer. Jazzy Jeff's G4 powerbook was very conspicuously on the stage last time he played buku.

But then again, neither knows shit about djing either. Technically these guys are just inept. :roll:

[Pete1]

Grrrr, out manouvered yet again!

I'll get my coat...

[jam the box]

I like ableton because you can get completely p!ssed at parties and still play the best set ever. Yes it can make you lazy but the true talented people will still shine through by pushing the software to the limits.

Surgeon used ableton at tfunkshun and blew the roof off. He wasn't just playing one record after another though. There was a lot of his own reworkings and edits of well known tracks coming into the mix. Most of the people who are using ableton really well are the ones who have been top of the dj game for years and are just trying to push things on.

[Pete1]

It'll end in tears. Every man and his dog will be a DJ soon.

I'm off to learn the pan pipes.... it's the next big thing.... i'll be a pioneer!

[philcharnock]

The main skill in DJing is in selecting the records and putting them in the right order and no cdj or computer can help you with that. Using only a laptop does take away from what little visual interest there is in DJing. A combination of formats is usually preferable. But ultimatly music is there to be listened to, not looked at.

These new technologies may allow those who have excellent taste and a good feel for a dancefloor, but arent too hot at mixing, to have a go at DJing. Think about how computers and samplers made music creation easier 20 years ago. How many of your favourite records would not exist without technology making it easier for creative people to realise their ideas? Could computers and cds allow talented people to achieve their DJing dreams in a similar way?

I dont agree with the CD players make life easier kinda mentality anyway. Our own vinyl-free Leo Belchetz is testament to that. He only uses 'old style' cdjs that dont emulate vinyl. And when he does get more modern equipment he turns the vinyl emulation off and just uses the buttons. Quite frankly mixing as smooth as he does on that kinda set-up is pretty skilled.

Jazzy Jeff was using Serrato Scratch. Like final scratch only more sensitive for scratch jocks. These Final Scratch-esque programs allow the skills of using decks to be combined with the flexibility offered by a laptop and the sheer volume of records that it can hold. A good thing I'd say. But you would have to shell out a fortune unless you already had a great laptop and decks.

And Francios K only brings a laptop to enable him to have more records with him. He doesnt do it because it makes mixing easier. In fact at Circus his mixes with vinyl and cd were far better than his clunky use of the laptop. Proof it doesnt make mixing easier.

I'd like to have a crack at laptop DJing, but ultimately I adore my decks. And computers are intimidating, quite frankly. But I do have one problem with laptop DJing. What if it crashes? :shock:

[tim scott]

I've just joined the laptop owning ranks so I'm reading with interest... I've got to agree with Phil:

The main skill in DJing is in selecting the records and putting them in the right order and no cdj or computer can help you with that.

Flashy mixing will only get you so far and to be honest, the kind of music I play you couldn't beatmatch all night long even if you wanted to. I get bored playing music of the same tempo for more than half an hour... but that probably says more about my attention span.

As far as I can see, the laptop gives you a new tool. Use it, don't use it, it's up to you. Some DJs will always love going record shopping, getting promos and tracking down hard to find tunes - all of which are definitely part of why I love being a DJ. If using a laptop can make my sets more interesting, unique and give me more options, I'll do it! But if I ever get too geeky about it, someone shoot me.

[johnny.boy(2)]

2 people who know, talking a lot of sense. Its all about the music, not the technology.

Phil, you are bang on the money - what if the thing crashes?

But is this any worse than you getting to a gig to find your vinal is on another flight?
Or two decks that are just knackered? That very scenario happened to Yousef in Manchester not that long ago.

CDs have allowed DJs to carry as much new music as possible as easily as possible. Laptops are an extension of that.

No method is without some drawback.

[saintpeter]

Ableton Live is an immense program. If u use it purely as an automated jukebox i.e joining 2 tracks together seamlessly u will just make a tit of yourself. Its primary use in my eyes is to have shitloads of your own samples all thrown in (cleverly) together. For example I can take all of the samples I have used in say, my past 10 productions, load them all into live and create a new live set out of my own tracks. Thus making a new semi-infinite (what?) track/set.

Final scratch + traktor are both very good utilites, although traktor will automatically beat match each track loaded, it doesnt sync them perfectly. I see it like this....

As e a relatively competent dj myself, when mixing on the good old ones and twos, (and threes and fors on occasion) when Im cueing up the next track it can tak me anything from 20 seconds to 2 minutes to get them perfectly beat matched. Therefore most of my time is spent concentrating on beatmatching, but when I use programs like traktor etc, the software will worry about the beatmatching so I can utilise my brain on other parts like lookin for breaks in the track, double cuttin, reverse beatmatchin etc etc.
You may say this is what a dj should do ne way, and that is true, but just picture what mozat would have been capable of with cubase and virtual instruments! - nuff said

I agree that most patially clued up people could produce a reasnably good set usin ableton + traktor etc, but is that a bad thing? Ultimately its all about the music and anything that helps or aides us in our battle for supremacy is welcome in my eyes.

Goin back to the point about "not lookin as bling with a mouse and a tft in front of ya compared to decks" well its not always gonna be like that. Remember jean michel jarre's laser harps etc, well why not project a virtual mixer and virtual decks using light and control them in mid air??
I personally dont give a f*ck about lookin kewl whilst mixin, im happy sat in front of a screen anyday. (u can tell that by the length of this post)

Right Im off before I bore u all 2 death. If ur into laptop djin, buy one, if ur not then dont!

[garnster]

Thanks for some very interesting responses. I think I should take this one stage further by explaining my own purpose behind this enquiry.

Although I do have some limited beat-matching ability, using a laptop for DJing to improve it without effort is not the reason I am looking into this.

My theory is, that by using good quality software and combining it with pure quality music of a variety of genres it is possible to forge a rather unique sound and Djing experience.

For example: By taking house grooves and combining them with breakbeat hooks and, let's say, indie guitar riffs and powerful vocals, I could literally create brand new tracks in realtime (ie. Live performance). By combining this with conventional mixing and putting it all into logical layers, the results could be tremendous! :shock:

There again, they could be utter sh it e, but that's surely down to the individual and the choise of tracks/samples.

What does everyone think?

[Magik]

To be honest with you mate,as a musician/producer i have strong oppinions about laptops sets being used as "instruments".They should be seen as "aides".Ive seen people like Surgeon,Lawson and Autobots do some seriously great music on them but if anyone has the audacity to say its "Live" i will flat out deny them that title.
DJing on a laptop ...yes its a tool,as long as you can technically mix Live then its in the audiences oppinion.BUT noone can deny that DJIng is meant to be visually a live thing and theres nothing more mundane than watching some bloke completly wrapped with his eyes firmly pointed toward the screen.Its a barrier to some people.Mainly me.
There are people who DJ on laptops really well but then there proven DJs/Producers anyway.Just dropping sound files into Ableton or Traktor it beat matches itself.
The loop options keep it going till your next sample is correct...you cant technically go wrong.....but like Forshaw says its the selection that u will be judged on.
Enjoy.....but dont expect a round of applause for your faultless mixing.

[saintpeter]

go for it garnster, I have created some of the most off beat and unusual tracks/sets usin live. If u r into experimental sounds its defo the prog 4 u. Im usin live 3.04 but 4 is out now, u can also set it to rewire mode and use progs like reason with its excellent synths and destruction units. Good luck bud

[Magik]

And just by delving into the idea of stretching your imagination is better than picking up the latest upfront promo IMHO.good luck :P

[the quoon]

aye fk uses a laptop with traktor, last time at sankeys he brought his drum pads as well.

when the music is that good, who cares what its mixed on.

[philcharnock]

DJing off Ipods. Now thats wack.

And whatever happened to Minidisc decks? Now that was a silly idea.

Viva vinyl!

And cds. And MP3s. And tapes. Its all good.

[soulizm]

i havent got a lot against people using laptops, but please, do some a bit creative! example: jonathan moore from coldcut a while a back at chibuku - he seemed to be playing obvious tracks from his laptop and that was it - boring! Surgeon - he played at t-funkshun and used ableton in a more creative manner - i seem to remember some complete fuckery-upery with Spastik - nice!

Thing is, on a personal level there is some sort of visual aspect to 'listening' to a dj play records... something about glancing up while so-n-so is diggin in the box and if the sets going well you get a rush of excitement wondering what the hell beast of a track is gonna get thrown in next - not the same if a guys just blending records on a computer.
As people have said, some music is meant to be mixed, some music just isnt. But in either situation, i prefer to see a dude slappin the record on the deck and bringing it in - whatever way he chooses - than to see some dudes face buried in a computer. Theres nothing that brings a room together more than when youve got the likes of a Joe Claussel or a Theo Parrish at the controls where every move or tweak you see them make behind the tables is paralelled by peoples movements on the dancefloor. Makes me feel at one with the music far more than seeing some apple logo on the back of a laptop.

Another thing, i dont see that computers, or cdjs, make things any easier - if youre a good dj. If youre wack youre wack and you probably wont have the feeling anyway. But if youre a good dj it shouldnt take you more than 20 -30 seconds to get your beats pretty much set up. Obviously it can take a lot longer to get your head round more complex beat patterns but then on some of these you shouldnt be mixing anyway. You gotta present the music how it sounds best - sometimes this is just fading one record out before fading another in.

At the end of the day, technology is ace but i cant see myself stopping buying records any time soon. They sound better. Theyre fun to play with. Theyre fun to seek out. They just create excitement. Case in point - Jam the Box recently acquired the gift of a white label unreleased record from one of Detroits finest producers. The excitement of putting the needle on the record and wondering what the hell Freaky ass sh!t would come on was electric - something that would never have been the case with an mp3. We were all captivated waiting to hear those warm grooves that the vinyl emits - and sorry, no other format sounds as good!

[johnny.boy(2)]

Given time that will happen. Imagine seeing the DJ on screen digging through his virtual crate. Then chosing the bomb. Then knowing what the bomb is.

Music now is not neccessarily about finding new tunes, it can be discovering about the old.

I actually see little theatre of watching someone trying to beatmatch, fiddling with the spindle and the pitch adjust.

[tim scott]

To be honest with you mate,as a musician/producer i have strong oppinions about laptops sets being used as "instruments".

Magik, I agree - it's not a live instrument is it, let's face it!! But it could be used with live instruments to create a performance which is way easier to put on than a full live band... I recently witnessed D'Nell do exactly that at Electric souls and do it well. I've also just seen a flyer for this which would be exactly how I'd like to develop my musical performances in the future (if my laptop and skills are up to it):

Monday 22nd November
Notting Hill Arts Club (London W11)
8pm-1am, £8/£5 concesh

Live:
Mark de Clive-Lowe's Freesoul Sessions
featuring Kaidi Tatham, Michelle Escoffery, Dave Okumu + guests

DJs:
Dego [4Hero/DKD]
Chris Cox [Antipodean Records/ThisInformation]

Antipodean Records' new UK clubnite kicks off with an all star Freesoul session. Mark de Clive-Lowe armed with MPC, keys and a rotating cast of soul, jazz, hip hop and beat artists come together in the spirit of Freesoul - raw creativity and performance, improvised live on stage. With resident DJ Chris Cox (NZ) and this month's guest, Dego (4Hero/DKD).

flyer: http://www.markdeclivelowe.net/promo/flyer.html

A blend of great musicians (by the way, I'm not trying to include myself in this bracket, don't get the wrong idea!!! We've all got to aim somewhere!!) and great DJs in a night that will create some unique music. Maybe I can get there one day...

[boltzy]

The main skill in DJing is in selecting the records and putting them in the right order

wrench and a tub of grease doesn't make you an engineer you know

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:0EHyGzkX5vgJ:www.thegoldenyears.org/donald_sutherland.jpg

[johnny.boy(2)]

[i]Monday 22nd November
Notting Hill Arts Club (London W11)
8pm-1am, £8/£5 concesh

Live:
Mark de Clive-Lowe's Freesoul Sessions
featuring Kaidi Tatham, Michelle Escoffery, Dave Okumu + guests

DJs:
Dego [4Hero/DKD]
Chris Cox [Antipodean Records/ThisInformation]

Antipodean Records' new UK clubnite kicks off with an all star Freesoul session. Mark de Clive-Lowe armed with MPC, keys and a rotating cast of soul, jazz, hip hop and beat artists come together in the spirit of Freesoul - raw creativity and performance, improvised live on stage. With resident DJ Chris Cox (NZ) and this month's guest, Dego (4Hero/DKD).


I reckon 2008 we can look forward to nights like this every week. Dego was fantastic at Southport. Mark de Clive-Lowe is a major talent.

Michael Escoffery - any relation to Sean?

[philcharnock]

Cousins I think.

I see Donald Sutherland is being a smart ar$e again... :roll:

[johnny.boy(2)]

Thanks for the info Phil. Has Mark de Clive-Lowe done an album yet?

Also, Donald may be clever but he is too readily seduced by Mammon.

[absolutemoron]

I dont agree with the CD players make life easier kinda mentality anyway. Our own vinyl-free Leo Belchetz is testament to that. He only uses 'old style' cdjs that dont emulate vinyl. And when he does get more modern equipment he turns the vinyl emulation off and just uses the buttons. Quite frankly mixing as smooth as he does on that kinda set-up is pretty skilled.


Thanks Phil. You shoulda seen me last night though working the Technics like a bad boy... I think I'm regressing. :lol: